Gina Wilson
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
Opening remarks
That was well covered. Thanks.
Meeting 16 · December 10, 2025 · 16:33–18:10 (1h 37m)
45-14 witnesses · 142 interventions · 11,353 words
The committee was studying the Auditor General’s follow-up report on programs for First Nations, examining progress on recommendations from six audits since 2015. Appearing were Gina Wilson, Deputy Minister of Indigenous Services; Candice St-Aubin, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister; Auditor General Karen Hogan; and Principal Glenn Wheeler.
Minister Mandy Gull-Masty accepted the Auditor General’s findings as a measure and guideline, acknowledging that progress must go faster and be clearer. She announced an action plan to be presented in spring 2026, shaped by community feedback. She highlighted work on health services, including hiring over 100 frontline nurses and expanding eligible service providers, and noted that eight bilateral emergency management agreements and seven wildfire agreements are in place. She committed to introducing clean drinking water legislation in spring 2026. On Bill S-2, she said she wants to create space for First Nations to define membership and citizenship for themselves, moving beyond the Indian Act.
Deputy Minister Gina Wilson noted that ISC has reorganized its sectors and operations to provide a one-window service and that staffing has been reduced from 8,619 to 8,076 full-time equivalents due to prudent decisions. She pointed to significant results in many areas that she said were not well reflected in the audit report.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister Candice St-Aubin did not provide substantive testimony beyond offering a technical follow-up on urban Indigenous supports.
Auditor General Karen Hogan stated that ISC had made unsatisfactory progress on more than half of the 34 recommendations examined, despite program spending nearly doubling over five years. She identified four systemic barriers: lack of sustained management attention, lack of clarity around service levels, insufficient support for First Nations capacity, and a passive, siloed approach. She expressed particular concern that nine long-term drinking water advisories have remained in effect for a decade or longer and that fewer emergency service agreements were in place than in 2022. She called for a different approach and mindset, emphasizing that the department must meet communities where they are rather than waiting for them to apply to fragmented programs.
Principal Glenn Wheeler added that the funding formula for water systems was not updated to account for the age of treatment plants, and that operator turnover in communities contributes to ongoing advisories. He noted that while the department moved from funding 80% to 100% of water treatment plant costs, the formula itself was not revised.
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Gina Wilson
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
Opening remarks
That was well covered. Thanks.
Candice St-Aubin
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Health and Social Sector, Department of Indigenous Services
Opening remarks
That will not be a problem.
Karen Hogan
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General
Opening remarks
Mr. Chair, thank you for the opportunity to appear before the committee today to discuss our follow-up report on programs for first nations, which was tabled on October 31. I would like to begin by acknowledging that we are on the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people. I am grateful for the contributions and stewardship of indigenous peoples across Canada, who have been caring for the lands they inhabit for generations. With me today is Glenn Wheeler, the principal responsible for the audit. Programs for first nations have been a long-standing concern for my office. In this follow-up audit, we examined Indigenous Services Canada's progress in implementing 34 recommendations from six audits that my office has conducted since 2015. Those audits examined a variety of programs that are important to the health and well-being of first nations communities, including programs that provide access to primary health care, emergency management services and safe drinking water. Those audits cover things that most Canadians take for granted. Even though program spending has nearly doubled over the past five years, we found that Indigenous Services Canada had made…
Glenn Wheeler
Principal, Office of the Auditor General
Opening remarks
Maybe I'll add one point, Auditor General: the whole issue of the funding formula not being amended to take into consideration the state of drinking water systems. If you have an older system, it's obviously going to take more O and M money to keep it up and running. Although the department went from funding 80% of the cost of water treatment plants to 100%, which was a good thing, the funding formula was not updated to take into consideration the age of the treatment plants. That's another issue that is of some importance. The Auditor General mentioned the issue, for example, of water treatment operators: You need a primary and a secondary. There is turnover, there are retirements and people leave the community, so you might have two water treatment operators at one point, but six months later you're down to one, and then you're going to have accompanying issues. There's a lot that goes into the issue.