Gita Ljubicic
Professor, McMaster University, As an Individual
Opening remarks
Thank you so much. I'm just checking.... We can't see you online. Are we only doing audio, or do we have video too in the room?
Meeting 2 · September 15, 2025 · 11:02–13:08 (2h 6m)
45-16 witnesses · 117 interventions · 14,902 words
The committee is studying the impact of federal funding criteria on research excellence in Canada. Appearing were Gita Ljubicic, professor at McMaster University; Steven Pinker, professor at Harvard University; Azim Shariff, professor at the University of British Columbia; Kelly Cobey, scientist at the University of Ottawa Heart Institute; Grace Karram, assistant professor at the University of Toronto; and Vincent Larivière, professor at the Université de Montréal.
Gita Ljubicic said conventional quantitative measures of excellence, such as publication counts, do not capture real-world impacts like informing policy or advancing reconciliation. She recommended ensuring reviewers have direct cultural or community-specific experience, including early career researchers as reviewers for their own funding pools, and assessing partnerships based on relationship strength and collective planning rather than just academic outputs.
Steven Pinker argued that viewpoint diversity is essential to science because it helps correct cognitive biases, while allocating funding based on race or sex is inherently unfair, wastes taxpayer money, and undermines public trust. He said that if science is perceived as ideological, the public may reject even strong scientific consensus, and that interventions to address inequities should occur earlier in the education pipeline, not at the grant-awarding stage.
Azim Shariff said the Canada Research Chair program’s policy of restricting new nominations when an institution trails behind equity targets for any one group can be counterproductive, as it incentivizes hiring from larger pools while still missing targets for smaller groups. He gave an example of a failed search for a senior scholar that left a research cluster in jeopardy, and urged Canada to reconsider such trade-offs to better attract talent fleeing the politicized U.S. academic environment.
Kelly Cobey said Canada is shifting from quantitative metrics like journal impact factors toward qualitative assessments, such as the tri-agencies’ new narrative CVs and CIHR’s eight-domain research excellence framework. She warned of implementation gaps between policy and practice, and called for better monitoring of funded projects, noting that about half of clinical trials conducted in Canada never have their results reported.
Grace Karram highlighted several paradoxes: Canada’s R&D spending as a share of GDP is below the OECD average, yet higher education research spending has risen; Canada ranks high in publications but low in patents. She recommended funding both institutional infrastructure and projects, expanding who qualifies as a researcher to include precarious faculty, increasing international collaboration, and using targeted programming to support women, racialized researchers, and Indigenous communities.
Vincent Larivière said there is no consensus on what research excellence is, and that evaluation committees often rely on flawed quantitative indicators like publication volume and citation counts. He recommended that funding agencies experiment with peer review, that narrative CVs be kept short to avoid being judged by volume, and that the use of bibliometric indicators in evaluation committees be explicitly banned.
During questions, members asked about DEI policies, the concentration of funding at large universities, and the role of knowledge mobilization. Witnesses disagreed on some points: Pinker and Shariff argued that demographic diversity criteria can exclude talent and chill research, while Karram countered that well-designed EDI programs can bring in highly skilled researchers from diverse backgrounds and improve research questions. There was no procedural debate, motions, or votes during this meeting.
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Gita Ljubicic
Professor, McMaster University, As an Individual
Opening remarks
Thank you so much. I'm just checking.... We can't see you online. Are we only doing audio, or do we have video too in the room?
Steven Pinker
Johnstone Family Professor of Psychology, Harvard University, As an Individual
Opening remarks
Madam Zahid, Monsieur Blanchette-Joncas and members of the Standing Committee on Science and Research, as a proud Canadian and graduate of Dawson College and McGill University, it is a tremendous honour to speak to you today about diversity in science. Starting in the late 1970s, the concept of diversity became popular in the United States after the Supreme Court ruled—
Azim Shariff
Professor, The University of British Columbia, As an Individual
Opening remarks
Thank you for the opportunity to speak before this committee. My name is Azim Shariff, and I'm a professor of psychology at the University of British Columbia. I was born and educated in Canada—first at the University of Toronto and then, for my doctorate, at UBC—and I later held faculty positions in the U.S. before being invited back home under the Canada 150 research chairs program. In light of this committee's study, my most useful contribution today will be to share my observations about how well-intentioned policies surrounding the Canada research chair program have played out in practice. As you all know, the CRC program serves as one of Canada's primary tools for attracting and retaining highly impactful researchers. To fulfill its mandate to support research excellence, the program has, over its 25-year tenure, adjusted its policies with regard to equity, diversity and inclusion. There are many rationales for why academia should prioritize these values: A faculty that is more representative of the Canadian population earns trust and legitimacy with the community; it is also more tuned to the full spectrum of questions that Canadians care about. Chief among the reasons,…
Kelly Cobey
Scientist, University of Ottawa Heart Institute, As an Individual
Opening remarks
Thank you, Madam Chair and members of the committee, for the invitation to discuss the impact of federal funding criteria on research excellence in Canada. I am a scientist at the University of Ottawa Heart Institute and an associate professor at the University of Ottawa. I also co-chair an international initiative called DORA, the Declaration on Research Assessment. DORA operates globally and across all disciplines. Our recommendations at DORA apply to funding agencies, academic institutions, journals, metrics providers and individual researchers. DORA advocates broader assessment criteria to acknowledge the diversity of researcher activities. Our meeting today comes at a time when the criteria to assess researchers in this country are shifting. Historically, decisions were based on quantitative metrics, such as the number of articles we published, the journal impact factor of where those publications sat and the amount of funding that we brought in. Quantitative metrics are easy to calculate, which makes them convenient for assessing a lot of people very quickly. Unfortunately, they're not evidence-based, they're not responsive to changes in the research ecosystem and they…
Grace Karram
Assistant Professor of Higher Education and Coordinator, Higher Education Graduate Program, University of Toronto, As an Individual
Opening remarks
Thank you very much, honourable members. Thank you for the opportunity to talk about this important topic. When we compare Canada's position in scientific research with the positions of other members of the OECD, several paradoxes come to light. I will present these paradoxes as a way of clarifying Canada's research and development sector and those who work within it. Specifically, I'll examine the role of post-secondary institutions, the impact of international research collaborations, the role of the business sector and labour market inefficiencies that have led to an underutilization of our Ph.D.s. I'm going to conclude with several recommendations to help strengthen Canada's research production. How does Canada compare globally? Well, Canada's general expenditure on research and development, as a percentage of the GDP, is notably below the OECD average, and it has declined steadily since 2001. The paradox, of course, is that higher education expenditures in research and development have increased 30% during the same 20 years, so Canadian post-secondary institutions and the researchers they house play a significant role in the country's research and development. The second…
Vincent Larivière
Professor, Université de Montréal, As an Individual
Opening remarks
Thank you very much for the invitation to testify on the important issue of research excellence. My name is Vincent Larivière, and I'm a professor of information sciences at the Université de Montréal. I'm also the UNESCO Chair on Open Science and the Quebec research chair on the discoverability of scientific content in French. I'm not representing the Université de Montréal today. I'm appearing as an individual, as an expert who has spent about 20 years studying the scientific community, and specifically the issue of research excellence and evaluation. The first thing that's important to mention is the lack of consensus on what research excellence is. This can be seen virtually everywhere in the scientific community. Funding evaluation committees don't always agree on which projects are the most important. Journal editors and reviewers don't always agree on the quality of a paper. Excellence in research is, in a way, the holy grail of the scientific world, but it remains quite difficult to define. There's a lot of subjectivity in all of this. It can be explained in a number of ways, but one thing is clear: Scientific excellence is multi-faceted. It can vary depending on the…